Why Mormons Do Better Youth Ministry Than We Do

Jesus taught love one another and to love God. In 1st Corinthians, Service and charity are love. What difference does it make if I am a Mormon or Catholic or Atheist? He believes in me. Jesus died for me and for every person who lived the. And now. Everyone will know the truth, or at all. We can be examples to our children by living as He did. He set the path. We need only follow it. Do we expect more from out youth? Obviously, it is a question we Need to ask. If the answer is no, ten what can be done? Jesús was tireless, gave himself, completely and was exalted. He said, only through me can you enter into the presence of our father. He is the ultimate example. Striving to be like him and do the will of our father cannot be wrong.

I'm not sure this blog is still open.
I enjoyed the article and felt it was not over the top anti-Mormon.

I was born and raised in the church, served a mission in the South in the early 60's, married and have eight children. My kids have all done well. Two oldest boys are pilots for the same airline.
Youngest boy is a Urologist. They are all wonderful, kind, caring adults, which makes us proud of them.

The Mormon Church is one of the fastest growing religions in the world. All major Protestant religions in the U. S. are declining in
active members - that says a lot to me about the state of religion in this country.

Take care, Rob

Q: Some people say Mormons believe weird things. What are these weird things Mormons believe? 1. Adam and Eve Mormons believe that Adam and Eve were actual human beings, created in the image of God, the first man and woman on the earth. They believe they talked with a serpent in the Garden of Eden, and that Adam lived to be over 900 years old before he died. 2. The Flood Mormons believe that a flood once covered the earth and that God called a man to build a big boat, stock it with animals, and sail away while the waters killed off wicked people. 3. The Exodus Mormons believe that the people of Israel were led out of Egypt by a man named Moses. They believe that through God’s power the Red Sea was parted long enough to allow all two or three million of them to cross over on dry ground, and that when they were all safe on the other side, the waters came back together and drowned the world’s then-largest army. Mormons believe that every morning the people of Israel would wake up and find their food on the ground ready to eat. And that when they tired of eating this bread-like substance and complained never having meat to eat, the Lord sent so many quail to fall into their camp they were piled up three feet deep. 4. Old Testament Events Mormons believe that in Old Testament times a man was swallowed by a huge fish and came out unharmed three days later, that God told a man to offer his son as a sacrifice but then changed His mind and sent an angel to stop him, that a boy killed an eight-foot giant with a stone and a slingshot, that trumpets brought down the walls of a great city, that men were tossed into a furnace but were not burned, that a man was tossed into a den of hungry lions and the lions refused to eat him, that another man was fed by a raven, that a widow had a barrel of flour and container of oil that never ran out, that a man commanded the sun to stand still so he could finish a battle, that a man commanded it not to rain for three years and it didn’t … and on and on. Mormons believe all these things. 5. Christ’s Miracles Mormons believe Jesus Christ turned water into wine, raised Lazarus from the dead, fed 5000 people with just a few loaves of bread and fishes, healed lepers, caused the lame to walk, the blind to see, the deaf to hear, walked on water, told Peter how to catch a fish that would have a coin in it so taxes could be paid, reattached the ear of a Roman servant, among many other miracles. Mormons believe He had power over death, that he voluntarily laid down his life as a ransom for all mankind and then picked it up again as a resurrected Being. They believe He continued to appear before hundreds of people and even walked through walls. 6. Visions and Visitations Mormons believe God the Father and Jesus Christ both appeared to Joseph Smith in a vision and called him to be a prophet of God. They also believe Joseph Smith received visitations and instruction from John the Baptist; Peter, James and John; Moroni, a Christian prophet who lived on the American continent about 400 A.D.; Moses; Elijah; Elias; and many other prophets who once lived on the earth. Mormons further believe that the aforementioned Moroni delivered to Joseph Smith an ancient record engraved on metallic pages (golden plates) that Joseph translated through the power of God. This translation is known today as the Book of Mormon, another testament or witness that Jesus Christ is truly the Son of God, the Messiah who will come to the earth again, this time in great glory. 7. Revelation Mormons believe God still speaks to prophets today to help His children. 8. Temples Mormons believe that temples are sanctuaries where people can go to draw closer to God, a purpose of temples from Adam on down throughout history. They believe that in such temples covenants (promises) can be made that will last for eternity, such as marriage. In today’s temples, Mormons make promises of honesty, morality and service and are clothed in priestly raiments, as has always been the case in God’s temples from Old Testament times to today. In fact, almost every religion copies this practice from ancient temples and clothes its priesthood leaders in priestly clothing. 9. Fairness Mormons believe it is not fair to consign to hell all children and others who were not baptized before they died. They believe that all of God’s children will have the opportunity to hear Christ’s gospel, which they can then accept or reject. Mormons perform baptisms for such people in their temples, a practice known as baptisms for the dead that early Christians also performed. 10. Nature of Man Mormons believe man is co-eternal (but not co-equal) with God, that we have always existed, that we were not created out of nothing, and that we have lived for eternities and will live for eternity. They believe that God created us in the sense of organizing our elements. They believe further that a person on earth today is composed of two parts – a physical body and a spirit, and that this spirit is of a refined yet tangible matter. When the body dies, the spirit continues to live. 11. Pre-Earthly Life Mormons believe life did not begin at birth, but that we have existed forever and that before our earthly birth, we lived with God as His spirit children. They believe that we came to earth to learn the difference between good and evil, and to be tested. They believe that we will continue to live after we leave this earth life, and that one day our spirit will be permanently reunited with our body that will be glorified and incapable of death, sickness and pain. 12. Our Destiny Just as every parent wants his or her children to become the best they can be, so God our Father expects the same of us. Christ commanded us to be perfect, just as He and our Father in heaven are perfect. Therefore, Mormons believe that man has the potential to become as God through the grace of Jesus Christ. So what constitutes a weird belief? If any of the items under the last seven headings above seem weird, what word can possibly describe the beliefs of the first five headings? by Gary Lawrence

I work with the youth in our church, and am amazed every day at the great examples of virtue and righteousness they are. Are they all perfect? No. None of us can be perfect. As a Mormon family we are raising our kids to be the best people they can be, and to draw closer to their Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. To understand the full meaning of the atonement, and to use it in their daily lives. We are not trying to live righteously to build the biggest "kingdom" in heaven (as someone said before). We are working towards a far greater goal, which is to be together in heaven as a family. The most important thing to me is my family, and I believe that a loving Heavenly Father has made a way for us to be together again after this life. That is the point of teaching these youth to be good people that contribute to the world in a positive way, and find those who might want to hear about this plan. My brother is on a mission right now, and he is not perfect, nor was he forced to go. But, he knows without a doubt that the Plan of Salvation that he is teaching about is true, and wants to share that information with others. He wants others to have the opportunity to feel the joy that he feels every day. The programs they attend when they are youth help them to learn how to serve others, to love others, and mostly how to serve and love their Savior Jesus Christ. Thank you for noticing the example of our youth, and for your article.

Thanks everyone for your imput and thoughts. I thought I would join the club and add a few also. As a youth minister I connect with the things Greg has brought up. It is my desire to go and 'make disciples' through the power of the Holy Spirit. I think of Mark 3:14 where Jesus gives his strategy for disciplemaking. He designated the 12 that they would be with him and that he would send them out. He spent time with them, life on life, training them to send them out a missionaries. The mormon church does a great job with sending out. I would disagree with some of the mormon teaching though. In Eph. 2:8-9 we read "For it is by grace you have been saved, through fiath, and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast." We can not earn our salvation according to this verse. We recieve it as a gift. Also, " I am the Lord, and ther is not other; apart from me ther is no God." (Isa. 45:5) I love Jesus and I want not only to preach his message but to examine his METHODS for ministry as well. Hope this brings some things to mind. Don't mean to be argumentative, I just want other people to know the true Christ and fall in love with Him as the true life giver!

Hmmm very interesting, as a Mormon and therefore a Christian myself, I would love to talk to Ben Nicholson about how the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible. I would also show many scriptures that correlate with the Book of Mormon that are in the Bible. And I would explain that the young men that go out on missions preach with the Book of Mormon and Bible at hand. I truly hope the best for your youth, and maybe it is time to start following the scriptures that we Mormons do not seem to follow. Matthew 5: 14-16 "Ye are the Light of the World, a city that is set on a hill cannot be hid, neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel but on a candlestick and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven." We who contradict the Bible are the ones living by it. May your people do the same because in the end we have very similar beliefs and should be united.. And if there is doubt on that feel free to ask me.

I am a Mormon Studies scholar and while I felt that you made some good points I would, frankly, hope that Evangelicals not become too enamored with the LdS Church model - including and especially their youth ministries. Here are some facts that your article failed to mention: * Every 11 days a Utah teen commits suicide * Utah leads the nation in suicide among men 15-24 * Utah has the 11th highest overall suicide rate in the nation * The Utah youth suicide rate has tripled over the last few years * Suicide is the #1 cause of death among Utah teens" (John Dehlin, "Teen Suicide in Utah – My Elder’s Quorum Lesson Today"; http://mormonstories.org/?p=85) "Utah leads the nation in anti-depressant use, mental health problems related to depression, and has the highest teen suicide rate." (Shawn Landis, "Suite101: Utah's High Anti-Depressant Usage: Is the Problem the Mormon Church or Another Factor in the State?" http://mormonism.suite101.com/article.cfm/utahs_high_antideprresant_usag...) And for those who are unaware of the Utah demographic, between 60-70% of the state is Mormon so statistically speaking it's not hard to conclude that Mormonism is a factor in those numbers. Those of us who study Mormonism and work with Mormons have many, many, many stories of how overwhelming Mormon performance pressures can be. While I could easily be accused of over stating, the fact of the matter is that most Mormons are driven by a harsh and demanding religion not a personal, intimate, love relationship with Jesus Christ. Mormonism is in fact a Mind Control Cult.* Do we really want to derive our operating models from a Mind Control Cult? Something to think about . . . * please see the following for supporting evidence: http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid... http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid... http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid...

Joseph Smith once said that "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things could never produce the faith necessary for salvation".

Push your youth to do more as disciples. Sacrifice builds faith.

Your success will not be the same as in the restored church however, as the youth ministry in the Lords restored church is blessed with the leadership of a living prophet and apostles who have the priesthood of God.

Emulation will bring greater success in your ministries however. I wish your efforts success as you strive to build faith in Christ and teach true things about Him to your youth.

i like the moromon church i just dont agree with alot of thier beliefs such as "THE TRUE CHURCH OF CHRIST" or the "BOOK OF MORMON" but i admire thier faith and work they put it. I just dont believe in CHURCH I THINK THEY EMPHISIZE THE CHURCH TO MUCH AND NEED TO DO IT MORE ON CHRIST. I DONT TALK TO MISSIONARIES BECAUSE THEY SPEAK ABOUT THE CHURCH AND LESS ABOUT CHRIST. THATS MY OPINION

I am a Mormon. We use latter-Day Saints. Formerly Protestant and raised as a devout Catholic. I very respectfully appreciate the sentiment in this article completely. Thought I would share a bit so you could hear it from a Mormon as well. With regard to our youth - all true. The process is by no means an accidental one, as a youth advisor in our youth auxiliaries I can say that. Putting the differences aside and w/out taking anything from our extended Christian family - allow me to say that the reality is LDS youth make a splendid Christian youth. They do not only go to seminary at 5:45am every day. They are called into the ministry at the age of 12 like you said. They do have weekly Young Men/Young Women activities w/ a monthly combined activities. They have monthly socials by way of chaperoned dances and other social activities, sports, camping, etc.
They are very deliberately instructed in the gospel w/ emphasis on the Atonement of Christ. They are deliberately instructed in avoiding temptation and to bridle their passions. They are invited to live a health code, they are exhorted to not date until, at least, sixteen. They are encouraged to seek as much education as possible. Just last night the youth of our small ward (we had 40+ kids in attendance)had a "fireside" at a members home where they where ministered in detail about faithful and solemn prayers, finished it off w/ banana splits social. All this and 3 hour block at church every Sunday. And yes - the Sabbath is held deliberately. The average Mormon family holds a Family Home Evening every week and you can bet EVERYONE has a role or calling to be filled or other people that they are responsible for.
What am I saying here..?
This is not just a nice philosophical idea. This is not something they get around to on Sundays if time permits. Nor do we expect more out of our youth than we would THE REST OF THE FAMILY. Incase that is lost, be clear that your youth will historically VALUE what you yourslf VALUE. If it's not important to you (mom and dad) don't expect it to mean more to your children. This lifestyle is more than just a sizeable investment by part of the individual and families at large(and putting doctrine aside - when you think about it - it really should be!). It is time consuming, it is costly on many fronts, and IT IS TRANSFORMATIONAL as all get-out also.
They spend a great deal of time in serving people in and out of the church. They spend a great deal of time miking these investments both as families and individuals. There is alot of security and structure in this.
The process is not only inviting, but because of all of these and other socio-cultural issues the product of all these things binds them together and they look for each other and they protect and nurture their values and themselves by deliberately avoiding being (too) wordly.
Scouting is a big deal to Mormon young men. Our Young Womens' group aspire to outlined virtues as well that they strive towards in a series of milestones, both of these designed for maximum growth, morally/spiritually uplifting. They are continuosly recognized from the pulpit as they achieve their goals and milestones.
Having been exposed to many aspects of Christianity everywhere, and without taking away from our more mainstream Christian extended family, who do much good - I wish we where all much more predisposed to grow from each other and to be open to each other's consultation rather than to look for reasons to puch each other away. There is several things I wish Mormon culture would draw from the mainstream, that said, it is absolutely true that the mainstream could learn a great deal from their Mormon brothers and sisters as well. Especially in the areas of family unity, convicting their youth in the gospel, and provident living (or self-reliance, and making it a very personal responsibility to be a voice of warning that invites all to come unto Christ (with and without a missionary badge).
As an aside, if there was ever a time in history for Christians of all denominations to unite (and put our differences aside) and send a message to our national leadership and the world and especially to our Father in Heaven that we are and always have been a CHRISTIAN nation then now is that time. It is right for the collective Christian body to make a unambiguous statement to a candid world that we are not ashamed to be CHRISTIANS, but that rather, we will stand up for Christ, whenever and wherever we will be.
United in Jesus Christ we stand and divide we fall!
Please accept this in the Christin spirit in which it is solely intended.
God blesses us all!
In Jesus Christ...

I believe we all need to understand and apply the principles found in God's word (raw and untainted, not watered down and well, wimpy)to our lives as adults first and let that be a witness to our children and youth. God is a God of extremes. He is absolute holiness, righteousness and light. There is not one iota of darkness in Him at all, and the only way to Him is through His son Jesus Christ. The point I am making is simply this: Serving God is literally a matter of life and death. It is THAT important. We MUST find and adapt some sort of working strategy to drive this home to our christian youth. In doing so we are displaying the love that Christ himself showed us when He gave up all power to become "counted amongst the transgressors". It is indeed time to start actually sacrificing ourselves daily and teaching our youth not only to do the same, but teach them what these sacrifices mean and why they are so important.

I think mormons are great people who put there values first. I think that's really something to admire. I don't believe there religion is old fashioned in the least. There are great people with great morals who always stand up for what they believe and I really admire that.

These are all interesting comments. I agree that the Christian churches should be doing more to motivate their youth to become instructed in the Word of God(the Bible)and to want to share their faith with others. I do admire the passion of Mormon believers(even if I don't share their views). I know that we cannot earn our salvation through good works as the Mormons believe, however James said that "faith without works is dead". I think too many complacent Christian believers feel that since they are saved by grace it doesnt really matter that much how they live out their week (acting like the rest of the world) because God will just forgive them anyway. Don't be deceived, "without holiness, no one will see the Lord." We should be spurred on to do good works if we are genuinely saved. It should just naturally flow out of the believers heart. We need to be dying to self daily and conforming ourselves to the image of Christ (the real Christ who was God in the flesh who really died to cover all our sins and was physically raised from the dead)

This article was refreshing in its accuracy in describing Mormon youth activity. As a Mormon father sending his fourth son on a mission (to Mongolia) I will point out something important. My sons and daughter were never forced to participate in seminary, church, or missions. With my sons I would tell them before their missions that they didn't have to go and I would not treat them any differently if they declined their mission. While there may be a few youth who feel forced, the great majority want to serve willingly. I wish you success with your endeavors with your youth.

Greg,
Way to go, great article. As a Youth Pastor I strive to get my youth and Post Teens in a School Breakfest fellowship. I am part of a group here in Cedar Rapids called Youth roundtable and Youth fellowship. we (as Youth Pastors) of all donomanations get together and discuss what works and things we can do as a group to be in the schools and make deciples. this article was thought provoking and great. we are called to make deciples and we are NOT going to do it on Wednesdays and Sundays. We need to be in the lifes of our Youth and more importantly setting the example. I also am a morning DJ and event Coordinator on a local radio staion (89.1 the spirit) and strive to do the same there. Keep up the good work.
Keeping CHRIST in front,
Big Chris

I just found this article. I am a very active Mormon and I must say I am very moved by most of the comments and am very interested in all of them. Thank you for the general kindness and thoughtful comparisons. If there is anything in the Mormon example that inspires some of you, we are hopeful that you will glean what you will. I hope that you find success in your efforts to influence your youth. We have so much in common. Regarding our common ground, may I say the following? We, the Mormons, have a much greater dependence upon Grace than you might have heard. No matter how I might strive to lead a wholesome life, after the pattern Jesus taught, I know that I can never "deserve" nor "earn" the salvation that He offers. No matter what good I might accomplish in life, I know that the atoning relief I seek is a gift provided to me at a cost I can only barely begin to comprehend, much less "earn". Yet I also firmly believe in the yoke of Christ. The New Testament calls us to truly be desciples. To overcome each of my weaknesses, great or small, has required some sacrifice and effort on my part, even if the only thing I can offer is a broken heart and a contrite spirit. Relief, or salvation, seems to be granted only when I have fully understood that I can neither save myself nor can I heal the wounds that I or my loved ones have suffered. Even as we "come unto Christ" in our daily lives, we feel propelled to yield a greater portion of our own love, time and labor to His service. I am always in His debt. And, regarding the "Mormon heaven", we do not believe in a heavenly kingdom of material rewards. We, like you, seek to obtain the presence of God. We also seek to continue in His service, and yes it is true, we also look forward to a continuance of loving relationships begun here in this time and place. We believe that this life matters very much. What we choose here has eternal consequences. The atonement of Jesus Christ can restore us to the Father, if we so choose. And, our very lives manifest what we have chosen.

As a Mormon Missionary who had many other denominational friends in high school(California) I hope I might uniquely add to this conversation.

I believe its important that everyone understand Why mormon youth go to 6:00 AM seminary for four years and also why they have voluteer teachers who give up an hour of teaching with an additional 2 hours of preparation a day with no pay to help mormon youth.

I can say that the teachers went out of love. They loved us and cared for our spiritual well being. To this day (I'm 34) I am still very grateful for their sacrifice for helping me understand my Savior and the Plan of Salvation. For their ability to bring the spirit into my life that I might be more prepared for the trials and tempatations of youth.

The youth went for different reasons. A few were forced to attend by parents but most went to receive nourishment from the Holy Spirit. And I know it blessed all of our lives tremendously.

I believe other faiths do themselves a disservice by claiming mormons do such things because of mormons focus on works. This simply is not true.

"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.
Wherefore, may God raise you from death by the power of the resurrection, and also from everlasting death by the power of the atonement, that ye may be received into the eternal kingdom of God, that ye may praise him through grace divine. Amen."

The above verse is from the Book of Mormon and clearly states that we are saved from grace. We are moved to learning and sharing the gospel because we have felt the love of god in our lives. Have you?

Many of my non mormon christian friends would have welcomed sometype of seminary to help them through the day. I often wonder if they spiritually survived the college years. I hope and pray that they did and are still close to their Savior.

I sincerely hope that you as youth pastors will someday be able to establish such a inspired program.

I am a Mormon. Here are some reasons I think Mormonism is successful. Mormonism is not just a denomination. It is both a denomination and an ethnic group. Ethnic Mormons want to marry in their ethnic group but they need to go through a rite of passage to marry. The ethnicity of Mormons varies around the world. In Utah it is Danish or English but in the Islands it is Tongan or Samoan. With new converts the motivation is sometimes religious but sometimes a desire to marry into the ethnicity. I know I am sounding racist but that is not what I am promoting. I am simply saying many Mormons consider themselves a separate race, nation, people or whatever and so it is more than religion which ties them together. It is genes.

Just speachless!,i am really insipered and we just need to make a change!

My word! I'm intrigued, invigorated and relieved.

What a concept!

My butt has been kicked thank you!

Being a christian teen living in Utah (Mormon capital), this article hits home. The Mormon religion has many aspects to it that could be benificial if incoperated into other christian faiths. It's true that their teens are pushed to know much more about the church than christain teens are. However, the question is, is how far is too far? I have many close friends who I have had long talks with aobut how trapped they feel in their Mormon fatih. How they feel that even if they tried another church it would not be allowed. I know people who have been completely shunned by their families becuase in the end they choose another church. In my eyes the constant push of the Mormon religion is not one to be desired. For many, the journey of acquiring a strong faith in God is a fragile thing that can be uprooted if the wrong things fall in the path. The want to know more about God should be desired, not required.

as an Ex mormon who is married to an active mormon he is right the LDS church has alot of youth programs beyond just the youth too it goes on to classes for college students generally offered 1 to 2 times a week. also young people are moved on to a Singles group where they meet other Members through classes and dances the church is full of social and religous teachings. you are taught from an early age to Bare your testimony. just a thought maybe its time we started learning from them
agree or disagree they have something

A works-righteousness theology is at the heart of Morman motivation. They believe that the harder you work for the kingdom of God in this life the bigger your reward will be in the afterlife. They see themselves literally building up a kingdom for themselves in the afterlife, and their motivation is to build as large a kingdom for themselves as they can...which is believed to be achieved by being incredibly dedicated to their faith and doing good works. This type of thinging works great in the "self-centered" culture of the United States...because Mormans believe the more of themselves they sacrifice and give away for the good of humanity...the more they will receive from Christ in the afterlife. They literally think that they will be kings and queens in heaven, by being incredible servants on earth.
True Christianity on the otherhand looks forward to just one reward that is equal for everyone (no matter how big your contribution to the kingdom of God)... that is, an eternity in the close presence of God Almighty. Mormans are using heavenly materialism as their motivation...instead of an eternal spiritual relationship God. Heavenly materialism is easy for a young person to grasp and desire. While everlasting intimacy with God sounds so boring...when in reality it will be too incredible to describe in human words.

I think one thing you all missed is that the Mormons begin with the children...you all are talking about the youth when you should be thinking children...it begins there and that is why it is so easily accepted by the Mormon teens. You don't begin training in teen age years you begin early in their lives.Also, the other point is that you have not addressed is that it is a family endeavor. The father sets the expectation . Do we see christian fathers setting the expectations today...hardly. They do not study, they do not participate in SS classes, it is the women who are doing the work. Until the fathers take an active role in this and set the expectation it will not happen. We can learn much from the Mormons and their 'work' ethic and their standards. My one main trouble with the church today is that we are telling stories when we should be teaching biblical principles and biblical mores and methods to everyday life. We give out coloring papers and snacks, watch Veggie Tales when we should be teaching. Instead we are entertaining and that is where I see the youth today as well...it is all entertainment.

I've always thought we Christians are being out done by both the mormons and the muslims. "If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray - God will hear and heal our land. Once we've done this, if we will do what Luke 14:23 says "go out into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in that my house may be full." We can and will reverse our losses. thank you for stating the truth, we Christians need more of the truth spoken to us.
Wayne Guilliams

This is a concern in all of Christian Education. I asked an adult Sunday School Class if they came to the class expecting to "Learn"? Most attend for social reasons. We and our students need an attitude adjustment. We do not challenge our students of any age.

One problem with evangelicals is that they compete like the profit-oriented firms. I Evangelicals even destroy the credibility of others other groups. I suggest that let us adopt Chip Ingram's kingdom philosophy in his "How to Grow a High Impact Church," Doug Fields' PDYM, and other sources. believe that it is long delayed for us to repent and help or share the lessons we learned from experience.

I agree that Mormons live out their faith alot more publically then we do. I agree that we need to create a better "Rite of passage" for our young people, but that won't happen unless we minister to families not just students. I believe the reason the Mormon church is so effective is because they focus on the family! All of their marketing is geared towards the family unit, the parents. Without making our student ministries more "Family Ministry" we will never be able to set an example for our kids to follow. Training must start in the home and it must always find its center in the home. We who work at the church should come along and help support and minister to families

Yes and yes. Ever feel like one of the Old Testament Prophets proclaiming the truth which nobody around them wanted to hear? Youth leaders today are going to need to sound the siren and lead the charge in the fashion of one of these prophets. If we aren't teaching our students how to study the word, apply it to their lives and submit to its authority - nothing else counts. I believe that with my whole heart. That's what Samuel told King Saul.(1 Samuel 15:22)

Godly Faith without Holy Action is useless (James 2:17)and Holy Action without Godly Faith is hypocrisy (Matthew 15:5-9)but Godly Faith in Holy Action is WORSHIP (Hebrews 11:6).

Seriously People--the article is not about Mormonism, so let it go, or go blog on it somewhere.

Good word Greg. We need to stop treating our Christian students like consumers and start calling them to something much, much greater.

They're worth it, and the Kingdom depends on it.

I totally agree. I shared a message on how Mormans believe more in thier god than we believe in our God at a mens meeting. It was a challenge to commit ourselves to Jesus and fulfill his great commission for us. People will gravitate to passion. It proves whether or not you truly do believe in what you preach or how you claim to live.

I like what you had to say about creating more opportunities for our teens to evangelize. But why did you have to bash Mormonism so badly? It didn't help your argument it only hurt others and their beliefs. Even if you don't agree with what they believe it doesn't mean that you are better than them because of their beliefs. We are all created sinners and we are no better than anyone else. Then at the end you say, "Armed with the power of the true gospel (not some aberrant belief system) our teens could mount a comeback and help us win this thing. Game on." Why does it have to be a competition? Why is it an us versus them mentality?

I would love to hear back from Greg Steir and have a more in depth conversation about this.

Very good point! As a youth leader I find it very frustrating when I hear a parent complain about driving their kids to sporting events, etc...and the last thing they want to do is drive their teen to a youth group meeting. I think this article is a wake-up call to parents, especially those who do not put much emphasis on their children's Christian education.

What the Mormon's are doing correctly that we stink at is an established culture of rites of passage. The typical protestant church has lost any true sense of that culture. Sure we do baptism and communions and weddings and funerals, but that's about it. If we talk about our faith as a journey, being "lost" our starting place, recognizing Christianity as the path to the goal of celebrating eternity in the presence of God, then where are our road signs to help us see that we are on the right path in the right direction and making progress? Scripture is our map, but the church needs to provide people with milestones. We talk about them in books like "Purpose Driven Youth Ministry" but how are we helping people see when they have progressed from one stage of faith to the next? When as a church do we initiate our youth into adulthood? What excitement do we build in their lives about their growth and looking forward to the next stage of faith? The Mormons are only 1 of thousands of "cultures" that initiate their youth through a specific process that everyone knows about, everyone can plan on, everyone can commit to. It's consistent, it's steeped in tradition (valuable tradition), transforming for the entire community--not just the youth, and necessary. When youth don't have this rites program they make up their own--look at the behaviors that we try to teach them to avoid. They are typically behaviors that are actually healthy or at least not immoral in the proper context of adulthood. What we have to realize is that this is not just about teaching, and it's not just about pressure--it's primarily about us! It's about us (all adult Christians--parents, pastors, elders, etc) stepping up to the plate and modeling the faith we preach, joining together as a whole church to see that raising a generation requires the entire church's participationg, banding together as a community to define adulthood and Christian maturity, setting milestones that require effort for all church-goers, and seeking God's direction in accomplishing all of the above. The problem is not our students, it's not our culture, it's not the church--we are the problem (myself included). We are too busy pointing rather than swallowing hard. Our students are only thermometers for our own spiritual depth as a churchwide community. Our culture is only what we put up with, allow it to be, and the way we secretly want it to tempt us. The church is only what we've allowed it to become by holding back the fire that burns away the burdensome chaff. We've got to do what it takes, not what feels good. We've got to get peace in our communities, power in our hands, and purpose in our hearts. Ephesians 4:11-16 says "It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, (here's the key) to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach UNITY in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of god and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. (result) Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming (what we are trying to prevent in our students). Instead, speaking the truth in love (the hard part), we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head (the real brains of our opperation), that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every (key word) supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each (as in all) part does its work."
Sound like your church? Not mine--lets get to it. I'll get off my soapbox and get back to work now--thanks for listening and thanks Greg for seeking a better way to do this thing we call ministry

thank you for this article Greg. i know for myself i was a baptism away from becoming a mormon back in my home town, and the main reason really being was they were a body of FULLY committed believers, where as all the christian churches really came across at times as wish washy feeling stuff, and spent the majority of time teaching their kids that the other denominations in the town were to different to have any relationship with... so i always saw the mormon church as a unified body of sold out people, even the church experience for a mormon is completely different than we would ever expect... i know work as a junior high pastor, and we are continually trying to be more "culturally relevant" to our junior high's in our junior high services, in music, drama, teaching etc. the mormon churches have a lay person present a message that is not from the mouth of an overly charasmatic and entertaining source, the worship time is sung along side of a hymnal and an organ, and communion happens everysunday. add to that, that is only the first hour of church, there are still 2 more hours to go!!! where they break off in age specific groups, then into gender age specific groups and spend an hour in each of those!!! i know for us sometimes it is hard enough keeping our junior highs engaged in youth church for more than 1 hour let alone three!!!

but in my experience i truly have had the same push and desire to see a committment that is so apparent in our church as the mormons have in theirs!

thank you for this reminder of that greg!

One question I have regards the motivation behind the Mormon commitment. Do they follow a "works-based" theology? Do they earn their salvation by doing this missionary work? If this is true, then we have a very clear understanding regarding part of the reason for their passion. This is one area where we cannot copy them...we can't motivate our kids to "earn" their salvation. It's ours by grace! Good article. Just wanted to share my thoughts.

I really don't think that your view is offensive, I actually think it was very thought provoking. I understand where you are coming from, basically your saying that we and our children need to, as Christians have that passion and drive for the Lord, just as others do in their belief system. I mean if we were truly passionate and sold out for God our kids wouldn't be bored at Youth Group and there would be more activities to take place that they would show up to willingly. But personally I think it starts in the home if the parents aren't pushing themselves then why expect the kids to have any push at all.
I think you have challenged us to examine our own walk with God and how we can make it better and worth more than just a ticket into Heaven.

I can see the advantage of having such discipline in the growth of teens. Here we are faced constantly with despair of high suicide rates amongst our youth. Most do not even care to know the Gospel. Our church needs a divine turn around and despite the 'theology' of the Mormons, taking their example might be worth looking into.

Greg, I enjoyed your article. I get your point and have had those very same feelings. These young men are VERY disciplined (disciple ...very close word) in their life style and comittment to bring their religion to others. I have made friends with a few of these young men who are far away from their family and only speak to them on Christmas & Easter. They engage in no television, computer or radio. They stay out of the secular world. They wear suits and ride their bikes when it is 90 humid degrees. They are comitted. I KNOW that is your point. It is exactly the way I have seen these hard working young men. I am pleased to say we have had them to dinner on a few occassion. We share OUR belief in Jesus Christ. But basically, I just down right like these men. I love and respect them exactly the way Christ has asked us to do. You are 100% correct.. our kids could learn a lot from this type of training, preparation and discipline. I would love to see my child witness to another person. Our church has given them no training in that. I am sorry for the other comments that have totally missed your point. Keep up the good work. Remember, there are still a lot of "Christians" out there who only desire to have their ears "tickled". Joni from Fayetteville, NY

I think this is most certainly a provocation of thought. I certainly don't see any particular digs against Mormons, as Griffin suggested. Obviously, it's clear that as a Christian, Greg was expressing his personal views of the religion, which I would agree with. Not in any way connecting his comment of Satan's ploy to deceive the souls of young people with the plight of mormonism. Rather, his comment was pointing out the reality of the down hill track that many young people are finding themselves on, and the hope of salvation that is offered in Christ, that can and will change lives if we were to work much harder and smarter.
Here's a thought, not necessarily very clear or correct, but a thought nonetheless. I wonder if there's more to the dedication of mormon teens than just a strict regimen of theology and mission work. Could it also be added that with an air of deception that is easily believed, appealing to an innate human desire for close connection with family, and other such doctrines that are simply appealing. I'm sure there's some other psychological stuff that one could throw in on adolescent development and belief systems, but I wonder if their particular strategy is being as successful as it is(thought paling in comparison to many other religions) because of an interesting story and an appealing promise.

Now, of course, none of this suggests that a particular "strategy" should be adopted from another religion that seems to "work" for them. Because of course, as a youth pastor, and as a Christian in general, I'm very doctrinally focussed, recognizing that Scripture is truth and I will not even try to compromise that, nor could I if I tried. Of course I don't believe what a Mormon would on many different levels, nor would I be willing to compromise the truth of Scripture just to suck people in. And that's not to say that Mormons would do that either, but the originator of such beliefs may not have had the purest motives.

So what can we as leaders of a younger generation do to show the true love of Christ to our students, and to call them to higher commitment?
Short of simply putting it out there, making it known to students and appealing to their faith and calling from God, I'm not sure what we can do. The stakes are very high, but from my limited experience, that's the very thing that teenagers either can't, don't, or refuse to grapple with.

Griffin, I am not sure where you were going with your comment, but Christianity teachs directly from the Bible and no other sources. Proof of its accounts show true through mulitiple eye witnesses throughout time. We teach from the True Gospel. Many of the teachings in the Book of Mormon contradict what is taught in the Proven Gospel. See: http://www.macgregorministries.org/mormons/whatmorbelieve.html The article was praising their discipline and faith. It was not meant to be a bashing article, but I thought I would clearify where our beliefs come from. God Bless!

Griffin - the Christian "religion" isn't "lacking" anything.. And that's because Christianity is based on the bible. Nothing more, nothing less. Those that add or take away from that are false - including made-up religions who decide to replace the Truth with something that better fits their own personal beliefs or explanations for God and how and why He created us. This article is nothing more that for us Christians to open our eyes to the fact that we should hold our teens more accountable and push them - just like the article says. There's no sense in getting defensive or assuming some sort of "secret message" that has been covertly hidden in this article, unless of course that's what your religion believes.. As for me and the rest of the Chrstians who come to this website to increase in knowledge and wisdom for our youth ministries, we'll continue to seek only truth - not to add or take away - and we'll pray that you, too, come to know Truth as well.

What you are suggesting is being done in many churches I know...just not the churches you might expect it from. We left our large evangelical megachurch for a very small conservative church right after I found out that they had dropped their 3 year formal Christian education classes for hand-clapping Wednesday nights. Why? Because PARENTS had complained their youth were BORED with concrete instruction in the faith.

It's really all just a big competition to you? Are you trying to say that Satan is winning over the souls of Mormon teens? I'm sure that Mormon fundamentalists would argue the same thing about your Christian teens. What exactly makes your "true gospel" so much more superior than their what you call "aberrant belief system"? Maybe there's a reason we're "getting our rears kicked"?

It seems like fighting for the most love from God is a contest no one can win. I don't think it's about God loving you, it's about you loving God. And that's exactly where the Christian relgion is lacking. Mormons obviously have a commitment to a greater salvation, even if you do call it "fanatical." So unless you want to join the league of religious fanatics, it sounds like you might be out of luck. But then again, if you do decide to join up, some Mormon can write an article about you too. Game on.

Excellent!

This article is getting posted on my YM's Parent Page, as well as my newsletter article for the month!

Great article...I am a student pastor in Jacksonville NC and I am really feel that most churches, including myself have been putting out passive Disciples...We compromise the depth, theology and drive to develop strong disciples to have numbers, "success" and happy parents.

WOW! Very thought provoking and brave! I am challenged by the example of the Mormon church to meet daily and disciple their youth. Maybe it is not just our teens but ourselves we need to push.